Showing posts with label Morality. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Morality. Show all posts

Darwin vs God

One thing that strikes me as somewhat hypocritical is how religious people will pin the atrocities of the 20th century on Charles Darwin or on atheism (despite only tenuous links at best) yet when it's pointed out that religious people - especially Christians - have started wars, committed and assisted in genocides, enslaved people, protected child abusers and tortured people for thought crimes THEN out come the excuses:

They weren't true Christians.

They didn't read the Bible correctly.

They followed their sinful heart instead of listening to Jesus.


One could just as easily reply:

They weren't true atheists.

They didn't read Darwin correctly

They followed bad advice instead of listening to qualified professionals


One of the reasons I am writing about this is because I am writing up a response to the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed...

Stay tuned!

Preview - "William Lane Craig Welcomes You To His Cult!"

Below is a quick preview of my upcoming episode,  "William Lane Craig Welcomes You To His Cult", due for release in the next couple of weeks.



Stay posted for more previews, or may even the final product!

Episode 69: Is Atheism The Lamest Religion Of All?


In this special episode of The Tall Friendly Atheist Dad Podcast, Lewis Ungit and I discuss the idea of atheism being the lamest religion of all.

The first part is my scripted response to the statement, followed by a 90 minute chat on the topic.

Many thanks to The Skeptical Ghost Heathen and Justin for the introductions - you can find them at The History Of Religions And Their Gods on Apple Podcasts and The Prince Of Memegypt on Facebook.

And, as always, many thanks to Victim Of Illusion for the cool music :)


*NSFW* Episode 51: "The Devil's Television Network?" - A Response To Off The Kirb Ministries (Part 1) - DISCUSSION POST



This episode is Part 1 of a 4-episode response series from an atheistic perspective to Off The Kirb Ministries’ video titled “Dear Christian, This Is Why You Never Mess With Pornography”, a Christian polemic about the supposed evils of pornography and how to cope with pornography addiction.

Be warned: some of my responses are light-hearted and/or crass, there are times I break out in uncontrollable laughter, and the topic at hand is - of course - of a sexual nature.

Original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPUtJlZ9nUY

Please consider supporting my work on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/tfadpod

Ravi Zacharias - Confirmed Abuser

So, the final report in to the claims of sexual misconduct by Ravi Zacharias has come out. And while we don't have his side of the story, unfortunately, there is enough material to conclusively prove he was complicit in abuse and misconduct.

I would urge you to read the whole report for yourself, just so you are informed for yourself. It's no use burying your head in the sand. Ravi wasn't the first high-profile Christian thought leader to be found behaving badly, and he won't be the last, but we do need to make ourselves aware of high-profile people using their power and authority to abuse others, especially those who are vulnerable.

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RZIM Open Letter: https://www.rzim.org/read/rzim-updates/board-statement

Yes. This was abuse. There are no bones about it. Not just abuse, but manipulation, secrecy and control - exactly what cults do.

I applaud the willingness by RZIM to engage an independent firm to conduct investigations, and for releasing that report. My advice to them would be to now drop the RZ from RZIM and make a new start. RZIM was built of the public profile of RZ, and now we know RZ was a creep.

I am now going to comment on certain aspects of the report.


EMPLOYMENT AND CORPORATE PRACTICES:


The fact that the two spas he allegedly co-owned hired very few, if any, therapists with proper training or qualifications is damning enough in itself. If indeed he did own the massage therapy places, it really does read like he set up massage therapy businesses simply to make a cynical dollar.

Set up a massage therapy place, hire low skilled and unlicensed people, pay them minimum wage, done!

To quote the report: 

"We refer to all of them as “therapists” or “massage therapists,” although as this report reveals not all of the individuals who provided Mr. Zacharias with massage services were trained and licensed therapists." and; 

"One spa he frequented was closed down, and its owner’s massage therapy license revoked, for hiring unlicensed therapists."


To further quote the report:

"Mr. Zacharias is not listed on incorporation documents filed with the Georgia Secretary of State for either company, and he did not appear to have any role in managing the day-to-day operations of the spas. He told one massage therapist he was a silent investor in both spas…"


Which means Ravi was lying to someone: either he was lying to the massage therapist when he said he was a silent investor, or he was lying to the government when his name somehow did not get listed on any corporate paperwork for the businesses.

This, to me, is a cynical ploy to take the credit, but deflect responsibility - "I'm the famous man of God, and when things are going well, look at the money I'm secretly making…but if things go wrong, I know nothing!"


INTERACTIONS WITH THERAPISTS:


The report notes that while he was professional with numerous massage therapists, there were a number of them who he took advantage of, or definitely attempted to take advantage of.

To quote the report:

"Several massage therapists confirmed Mr. Zacharias’s frequent efforts to “try for more than a massage,” as one therapist put it. Eight therapists reported that Mr. Zacharias would start the massage either completely nude or would remove the sheets during the massage. Six therapists reported that he always or almost always had an erection during the massage. Four therapists reported that he would either touch his genitals or ask them to touch his genitals. And five therapists reported that he touched or rubbed them inappropriately."


But what is concerning is that he played off of his reputation and his charm to get people to drop their defences:

"…aspects of Mr. Zacharias’s behavior towards this witness were similar to his conduct with other therapists, specifically: the use of ministry funds to provide financial support, the effort to elicit personal information about a difficult past, and Mr. Zacharias’s use of religious language during their encounters…She reported that after he arranged for the ministry to provide her with financial support, he required sex from her. According to this witness, Mr. Zacharias used religious expressions to gain compliance, as she was raised to be a person of faith. She reported that he made her pray with him to thank God for the “opportunity” they both received".


"The therapists he reportedly targeted for “more than a massage” discussed a similar modus operandi of building their trust and making them feel at ease. As one put it, he “wasn’t frisky initially.” Some therapists described a process that began with probing conversation and him asking about their families and backgrounds, often delving into deeply personal issues such as financial struggles or emotionally broken backgrounds"


"Another therapist also refused when he asked her to “go lower” and massage closer to his genitals, and she admonished him on several occasions when he would start touching himself. He asked this same person to travel overseas to massage him on trips, but she was not comfortable with him and was afraid she would not be able to afford a plane ticket home if she felt the need to return early."

This man is not creepy at all. No.

You have to remember that Ravi is effectively their boss, if his reported words to the therapist are to be believed. As an investor, he wields a form of authority.


SECRETIVE TRIPS TO ASIA:


The report notes that Ravi would travel to Asia, often alone, where he would write books by day, and get treatment on his back at night.

"In addition to finding alone time when he travelled with others, Mr. Zacharias travelled alone to Bangkok and other parts of Southeast Asia for substantial periods of time. RZIM staff described these as writing trips where he would work on his latest book. On such trips, he would stay for days and sometimes weeks alone. According to a text message to a Thai masseuse in February 2016, he spent his days writing and his nights receiving massage treatments."


"We also learned that for several years, Mr. Zacharias owned two apartments in Bangkok…between 2010 and 2014 he spent a total of 256 days in one of these apartments…the other apartment, in the same building but on a different floor, housed one of his massage therapists. An entry on Mr. Zacharias’s phone for the lower floor unit includes this massage therapist’s initials."


Why travel to south-east Asia to write a book and get massage therapy, when you could easily find solitude in places much closer to home and find licensed professionals to do the job? 

To me, there is no way that he's spending long periods of time, alone, in one of the hotspots of Asian sex tourism, and not having illicit sex.


FINANCIAL SECRETS:

On top his two apartments, one which was used to house his personal masseuse, was this:

"between 2010 and 2014 he spent a total of 256 days in one of these apartments and sought rent reimbursement from RZIM for those stays"

I think it's a bit cynical to seek money from your company to stay in places that you already own. The only way I would excuse this is as a tax dodge. Otherwise, it comes across as being cynical and greedy.

We also come to his slush fund.

"Mr. Zacharias also used his ministry to financially support some of his long-term therapists. According to a description in the Notes application of one of Mr. Zacharias’s phones, Touch of Hope (“TOH”) was a “humanitarian effort on the part of RZIM meeting short term needs for long term gains.” We learned it was a purely discretionary fund and no clear guidelines governing how money would be granted….in reviewing documents provided by RZIM we noticed that a significant portion of the wire payments from that fund went to or for the benefit of four women—all of whom were at times Mr. Zacharias’s massage therapists…each of these four women received monthly support from TOH for extended periods of time."


This now raises a valid question - when an ordinary person donates to a famous (or even not-so-famous) Christian ministry, we have a right to know what percentage of that goes to hush money, discretionary spending on women who do the famous preacher sexual favours, money to reimburse someone for staying in properties they already own, etc.

In Australia, we have what is called the Charities & Not-For-Profit Commission (CNC), in which every organisation that wants a tax break for charitable or religious purposes has to submit yearly reports, much like a corporation does. Maybe the US needs something like that as well.

PHOTOS OF WOMEN:

The report also notes that Ravi had been sent images of numerous photos of women, by those women, and his multiple electronic devices stored photos of those women in various states of undress.

Now, if those women willingly and knowingly did so, this actually isn't a problem. Sexual communication between two willing participants is not a moral crime in itself. The downside of this is that I really don't want to to think about Ravi Zacharias sending his own nudes in return - the mental image of wrinkly preacher dick turns me off my lunch. The only saving grace is that cameras on phones 10 years ago weren't as sharp as they are now, so at least it's not 4K HDR photos of wrinkly preacher dick…

But what I suspect is that he maniupated numerous women in to sending those compromising photos of themselves, using that veneer of charm, confidence, security and safety that he is known for. This then becomes is a moral crime.


USE OF THE VENEER OF RESPECTABILITY AND PASSIVE-AGGRESSION TO DEFLECT CRITICISM:

To me, the most egregious violation of ethics is highlighted by these lines of the report:

"A high-level RZIM staff member expressed concerns to Mr. Zacharias about it and encouraged him to stop travelling with her. In response, Mr. Zacharias grew angry and barely spoke to this staff member for a long period of time. He was effectively “sent to Siberia,” as another staff member recalled. Their relationship never fully recovered."

And this:


"Several RZIM staff reported to us his “shifting narrative” as emails and other relevant facts were publicly leaked and he was forced to explain them. Rather than fostering an environment of truth-seeking and transparency, Mr. Zacharias was strident and inflammatory. He described his critics as “nasty people” and “lunatics” who were engaging in “‘satanic-type’ slander and falsehood.” Some RZIM staff told us that he expressed frustration with having to issue an apology at all. He was able to convince many that not only was he innocent, he was the victim of malicious “evil.” At an all-staff virtual meeting in January 2018, after significant details of the Thompson communications had been made public, Mr. Zacharias offered explanations that many staff members found nonsensical. But some staff members reported to us that when they expressed doubts about Mr. Zacharias’s story, they were ignored, marginalized, and accused of disloyalty"


And this:


"Another former RZIM staff member reported similar treatment from Mr. Zacharias when he raised questions about Mr. Zacharias’s conduct in and solo travel to Asia. As a result, he was “demonized” by Mr. Zacharias, who accused him of spreading rumors."


And this:


"Mr. Zacharias’s response to the Thompson allegations—including explanations of his emails with Ms. Thompson that surfaced on the internet—raised questions about his credibility. We interviewed witnesses within RZIM who were not satisfied with Mr. Zacharias’s explanations, and some reported their belief that they were marginalized for raising questions."


Ravi CLEARLY used his power, in the form of manipulation, ostracisation and demonisation in order to deflect criticism. And furthermore, his own staff only found out about the incriminating information via leaks. This is how cults work. Control information, come down hard on people who even DARE to criticise the great leader, selectively ostracise.

It's interesting to note that Jesus said, "if you are at the altar and remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift at the altar, be reconciled to your brother and then come back and offer your gift". It seems Ravi had a selective memory.


I was also quite taken aback by this:

"In response, Mr. Zacharias sued the Thompsons in federal court for extortion under the federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization (RICO) statute on July 31, 2017. The Thompsons and Mr. Zacharias mediated and confidentially resolved their disputes in late fall 2017. The resolution reportedly included a nondisclosure agreement (“NDA”)."


Ravi Zacharias, a man who represents God to the world and who trades off his reputation as a righteous man, sued a woman who he manipulated in to sending nude photos to him, under legislation meant to tackle organised crime and drug cartels. RICO has been used to charge the Hells Angels, the Gambino crime family and FIFA, and now this man used RICO to effectively persecute a woman who did his own bidding for the crime of making known that she wasn't going to cop his manipulation anymore.


The man was a slimeball.




Guest Appearance On Unwoke Ungit Podcast

Last night, I had the pleasure of having an indepth chat with Lewis Ungit, which was recorded to become an epsiode of the Unwoke Ungit podcast.

Lewis and I are clearly theologically opposite, but I love his intelligence, his honesty, and his friendly demeanour - I certainly look forward to more appearances on his podcast. Heck, I may even learn something.

Go and have a listen to two guys discussing morality from a religious perspective, authorship and politics, then subscribe!


The Man After God's Own Heart

The book of Acts describes David as "a man after God's own heart".

For example, the Bible records that David had killed numerous people as per 1 Samuel 27 in order to kill and to steal. On top of this, David was the one who killed Goliath, had his mistress' husband killed, and a refrain of the people of Israel was made that credited Saul with thousands of kills, but David was credited with tens of thousands (1 Samuel 18:7).

We then see that God had killed tens, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions. One just needs to look at the Noachian Flood, the plagues of Exodus (in particular, the last one that whose specific purpose was to kill children), the numerous times God killed people who complained, people he didn't like, nations he judged, and times he pronounced familial cannibalism as a punishment.

So we see that David was indeed a man after God's own heart - God was a war god who had no problem killing people to get his own way, and David had little problem killing people when it suited him as well.

Furthermore, there are only two instances in the Bible where God has a problem with David's actions:
God's unhappiness when David slept with another man's wife and had the husband killed (2 Samuel 12), and in 1 Chronicles 28, God basically denies David a planning permit for a temple on the basis that he (somewhat ironically) "has shed much blood", however God never chastises or punishes David directly for all that killing like he did when he took away another man's wife.

It's almost like God has more of a problem with informed consensual sex than he does genocide...

So when the Bible says David is a man after God's own heart, it is entirely correct. Both have no problem killing people to get their way, both have no problem taking things for spurious reasons, and both say really nice things about each other.

"Sorry Guys, It's Still Immoral" - A Response To CMI - The Wrap-Up



In the past few months, I have written up a ten-part response to Creation Ministries International's (CMI) article "Is The Bible An Immoral Book".

(Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - Part 5
Part 6 - Part 7 - Part 8 - Part 9 - Part 10)

And the reason I titled the series, "Sorry Guys, It's Still Immoral" is that, from my perspective, the Bible clearly endorses or commands a number of practices that, if carried out today, would be considered objectionable at best, or immoral at worst.
And because CMI published the article asking the leading question "is the Bible an immoral book?" with a focus on trying to show it is not immoral (rather than prove that it is moral), to me, the title of my series is a witty retort to the leading question.

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One of the reasons I undertook the project was because firstly, I enjoy writing, and second, CMI represent a strand of Christianity, namely Creationism, that I feel should be publicly challenged, with reason and rationality.


Because I believe in debate and the free exchange of ideas, if CMI want to publish something from their point of view, then they must expect responses from people who disagree with them no more than what they would expect compliments from people who do agree with them. Religion and morality are hot-button topics in today's society.

This is in no way to denigrate or defame any particular person affiliated with CMI – as much as I disagree with their public position, I have had friendly interactions with every CMI representative I have ever met, so if anyone from CMI comes across this, don’t take any of this personally - but I write what I write to challenge a worldview that explicitly rejects the most effective method of knowing about the reality we live in (the most unbiased and un-assumptive application of the scientific method) in favour of what amounts to obsequious deference to an imaginary overlord.

[And the reason I say that is because if you out-of-hand reject, do not seriously consider, or couldn't even entertain cogent arguments that the Bible could be immoral, then you're not genuinely saying the Bible is moral - you're obsequiously defending a faith position]

So when CMI ask is the Bible an immoral book, we need to consider quite a few things in order to give the best and most considered response.

Grab your popcorn and book some time off of work – this one is lengthy!

(Note: CMI have a plethora of articles available to peruse over at https://creation.com/qa, including some which may already answer points I have made in this series. Head on over, have a read, compare both sides of the argument!)

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Firstly, we need to consider what the best way to define morality is.

A cursory Google search gives the result:

Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour.

This is a good working definition, especially because of its simplicity and the fact that this definition adheres to no religious creed either way – it makes no judgement on gods or the supernatural in either the affirmative or the negative.

But however you wish to define the dictionary definition of the word morality, we then need to answer the next question, a tricky one: How do we discern between right and wrong and between good and bad in order to give flesh and bones to whatever version of morality we internally carry?

In my estimation, the essence of morality should be defined by what is universal to the shared human experience – health, wellbeing, and personal and economic freedoms.

We should call morally good or moral actions that increase (or even maximise) health, wellbeing and freedom, or that decrease (or ameliorate) pain and unnecessary suffering without unnecessary risk, and we should call morally bad or immoral actions that cause needless, avoidable or unnecessary pain, harm, suffering or death, are detrimental to personal or economic freedom, or carry unnecessary risk to personal safety.

And again, this favours no theistic position. It is as un-assumptive as possible in order to be able to apply as generally as possible. All this says is that we should consider as morally good actions that increase human well-being and/or decrease suffering, and we should consider as morally bad actions that increase pain and suffering, particularly pain and suffering that could be reasonably avoided.

How we get there is of course a vexed question with lots of twists and turns, particularly when it comes to situational ethics. 

But my contention here is that any definition of morality whose primary focus is the placating of a deity is, by definition, not a morality that is concerned with increasing human health and wellbeing or decreasing unnecessary pain and suffering. 

If you believe it that people suffering in agony or fatal harm is a better outcome than for your god to be offended or slighted, it means that you consider placating a deity to be of more importance and more value than people being healthier and happier. In the situation that you had a clear choice between helping a person stay alive or placating a god, if you chose placating a god, then in my view this means you have chosen an immoral action because you could have avoided harm and suffering, but chose not to.
This also means you cannot possibly argue that a religiously motivated morality is superior to an agnostic one that is focused simply on improving the human existence.


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Second, when we consider the Bible, there are some salient points to we have bear in mind:

A. There is no one authority that dictates and confirms correct Bible interpretation (a point I expand upon in the post 
No-One Owns Christianity). Essentially, Christianity is an affiliation of beliefs that share a foundational text inherited from the dying days of the Roman empire which has been revised and reinterpreted as necessary, as evidenced by two things:

1 - Some researchers have counted up to 33'000 different Christian denominations (depending on how they count what a denomination is), and;

2 - The fact that I could start a church tomorrow, with some of the most ridiculous and/or offensive doctrines imaginable, and there's no absolute authority anyone can stand on to tell me that I'm wrong or why.

When someone reads the Bible, they are free to interpret the text in any way they see fit. If someone wants to believe in a Bible that is literally true and self-interpreting, there is nothing to stop them doing that, and if someone wanted to believe in a Bible that is comprised of heavy amounts of mythology and allegory, then there is nothing to stop them doing that either.
Even if someone's interpretation of scripture is wrong because of an error in language translation, Christians, and in particular Fundamentalists, will swear by particular doctrinal positions based on the language they read the Bible in.

People may disagree with you, but they are relying on their opinion to tell you why you're wrong (for that is what theology is - opinion), and for every doctrinal position available, there will be at least one differing, maybe even opposite, doctrinal position that someone somewhere will hold with just as much scriptural justification.

Aside from language conventions, there is nothing authoritative to tell you your personal interpretation of the Bible is wrong, and even then, all it takes for a Christian to suddenly be an expert in Greek or Aramaic or Hebrew is to find an translation of a word that matches their ideal of what the scriptures should say.

The end point of all this is the following:

When someone proclaims ‘the Bible says…’, what they really mean is ‘my interpretation of the Bible says…’.


B. When people have used the Bible, or theology gained from a reading of the Bible, as a basis to justify or cover up harmful and destructive behaviours, it was humans themselves who, without divine intervention, brought an end to the practice of those behaviours.

For example, the historical child sexual (and subsequent psychological) abuse perpetrated by numerous people of faith, facilitated by churches and faith-based organisations across numerous countries over numerous decades. Far from bringing the abusers to justice, the various churches indicted (including the 
Catholic Church, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Anglican Church, the Salvation Army, various independent church movements, and more) at the very minimum swept the complaints of abuse under the carpet; demonised, ostracised or outright dismissed the complainant; hid allegations of abuse for reasons of political expediency, and more.
On top of this, faith-based organisations went out of their way to ensure that a large number of the perpetrators were never held accountable for their actions, be it allowing the accused to move from one diocese to another, aiding and abetting the accused in leaving the country to avoid trial, or vowing to never break the seal of confession if they become aware of child sex abuse - so many ways that it unreasonable to dismiss it all as just a lapse of judgement here and there, but a systemic and deliberate attempt at minimising and deflecting guilt to protect reputations. Given so many moral failures over so many years, the wave of criticism of organised religion cannot be deflected or dismissed.

Furthermore, it was not angels coming down on a cloud or God turning up at a police station to sign a statutory declaration that brought these abuses to light, but the various justice systems of the geographical regions that got wind of the abuses, instigating proceedings.

My point with all this is two-fold:

1. When horrible crimes and misdemeanours are committed by God's people, in God's name and sometimes even quoting God's chosen book, if/when the perpetrators are brought to justice, it is through humans working within their own capacity and within the local region's justice systems. On no occasion has a voice from on high manifested in a police station or on a witness stand.

2. In light of this, if God can't be bothered to defend his own morality, why should we?

And C: The best scholarship on the Jewish and Christian scriptures indicates many, many things that go against the Fundamentalist narrative. For example, 
Moses didn't existthe Exodus never happenedthe earth didn't stand still for a day, and many, many more controversial findings.

It is only the most Fundamentalist of believers that try their darndest to hold on to a "Bible as literal history" interpretation, to the point where they have to deny scholarship, common sense, and even reality such that they come up with colourful and inventive hypotheses in order to explain what an ordinary person would rationalise as myth.

Case in point: If we consider the Garden of Eden narrative (as per Genesis 1-3), how was a snake able to speak perfect Hebrew to the point that it could discuss theology with Eve in the Garden of Eden?
To show how you far people are willing to stretch reason to fit theology, someone once told me in response to the above question that it wasn't the serpent itself that spoke - instead it was Satan who possessed the serpent, thus enabling it to speak. This is swinging for the fences due to the sheer amount of questions, both biologically and theologically, that this ad hoc explanation raises.

My point here is that sticking to a Bible-as-literal-history narrative requires a degree of cognitive dissonance, which itself indicates a presumed willingness to disregard what we know (and can demonstrate) about reality, in favour of ad-hoc rationalisations unsupported by real world data (and sometimes not even supported by theology) that favours a particular theology.

And if your claim that you have the best explanation of reality, when your explanation of reality relies on a willingness to discard reality when things get prickly or when atheists start saying controversial things, you can’t say your explanation of reality is the best.

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Before I get to the question at hand, I also want to bring up a few fundamental flaws contained in CMI’s article.

Firstly, CMI employ the trope of atheism equals immorality. This is plainly wrong, because atheism is merely and simply not believing in god/s. Atheism does not inform morality.

Secondly, CMI employ the common Creationist trope of equating the theory of evolution with immorality. This, again, is plainly wrong, and for two reasons (amongst others) - first, plenty of Christians 
accept the theory of evolution (which seemingly makes no difference to their morality), and second, a theory of biological science makes no determination (either way) regarding morality.

Thirdly, because the author attempts to bring in extra-Biblical texts to defend the Bible, it actually deflects from the argument at hand. The argument isn't regarding the corpus of the Jewish scriptures or of Jewish society, but simply and only the Bible (and from a modern evangelical perspective).
You simply cannot say the Bible could not possibly be immoral, because of something the Mishnah says in its defence. When discussing the Bible, you need to stick to the Bible.

And forthly, CMI attempt to fend off atheist criticism of the Bible by impying critics of the Bible are Biblically illiterate
This is perhaps one of the weakest defences of the Bible one can employ - instead of arguing their case and coming up with convincing reasons why what Bible critics condemn about the Bible is actually morally good, the author would seemingly rather bring up the argument of  "you're not reading that in the right context correctly!".

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So let's answer the question at hand: Is the Bible an immoral book?

The question is not is Christianity immoral – this is a hard question that unfortunately gets reduced down to soundbites.
And it is entirely possible that Christianity is a moral religion, despite being based on a book that isn’t moral.

The question is simply and only, is the Bible an immoral book.

For the Bible to be considered an immoral book, it is because it failed criteria that would cause it to be considered a morally good book.
And for a book or text to properly be considered morally good, there are two basic criteria I want to apply that it has to affirmatively satisfy:

FIRST CRITERIA
a) the book has to contain moral pronouncements, commandments, policies, or statements that carry the weight/authority of being moral pronouncements (hereon referred to as moral pronouncement/s for simplicity).
b) these moral pronouncements can be encoded as principles that have the express purpose of suggesting, influencing, policing or dictating the decisions, behaviours and actions made by people, be it on a personal, societal or governmental level.
c) the encoding, creation or enforcement of these principles is done either by the author of the book, the alleged author of the book, or adherents/worshippers of the author of the book (real or alleged) under inspiration or influence from the book.

Any book or text that meets this first criteria can be then considered a book or text that attempts to make moral statements or pronouncements.

And if a book doesn't give moral pronouncements that become principles, it is considered amoral - not having moral value either way (for example, a maths textbook).

SECOND CRITERIA
When people who attain some level of political/governmental control of a society or geographical region at some point in time and place in history, and they applied the principles as informed by the book:
a) Did the principles being applied help the people of those societies live healthier and happier lives, and did that society minimise unnecessary suffering?
b) Did the direct application of the principles applied by those in societal control (by either cultural, theological or legal means) positively affect the wellbeing of the society the actions of those pronouncements were applied to.


In short, when people who believe in the book and/or worship the author of the book gain control and influence over a society, do their societies show an increase in overall human wellbeing, and is it because of what the book said.

I believe the above-mentioned criteria is useful for judging morality because with it we can use it to judge both religious texts (e.g. the Bible, the Koran, the Book of Mormon, et al), as well as non-religious texts (Mein Kampf, The Art of War, et al).


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Let us now consider the Bible against these two criteria.

FIRST CRITERIA:

Does the Bible make moral pronouncements?

Yes, it is clearly the case that the Bible makes moral pronouncements.

We already know about things like the Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes, but then we can also consider the entire Mosaic law as given in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. We can also consider the parables of Jesus who, in an oblique manner, was giving moral pronouncements. And even Paul in his epistles made moral pronouncements.
The Bible has an abundance of moral pronouncements, meaning the Bible easily passes the first criteria.

SECOND CRITERIA:

When a society has been governed, controlled or influenced by those who implemented principles from the Bible, did the people in those societies live longer and healthier lives, did those societies actively find ways to minimise harm and suffering, and did any significant portion of the population suffer for reasons that were under the control of the government that was influenced by the principles?

This is a tricky one because we have to consider what principles have been codified as law throughout history by various governments, and whether those laws were indeed inspired by Biblical moral pronouncements.

Because I want to judge the question against a Fundamentalist criteria (which I will explain shortly), I will rephrase the question for the second criteria as:

When a society has been governed, controlled or influenced by those who implemented principles from the Bible as inspired by a to-the-letter interpretation, did the people in those societies live longer and healthier lives, did those societies actively find ways to minimise harm and suffering, and did any significant portion of the population suffer for reasons that were under the control of the government that was influenced by the principles?

If we find an example of a Fundamentalist society or a theocracy that answers affirmative to the Second Criteria, then we can say that the Bible is a moral book, and therefore the Bible is not an immoral book.

Supposing we cannot find any examples of societies throughout history that have been influenced by to-the-letter Fundamentalist ideology, or that influence of such made no impact or material difference on the society that was under its influence, then we can only consider the Bible (from a to-the-letter Fundamentalist ideological perspective) to be a morally neutral book because when it has never been in a position to make an impact on any society – thus, the Bible cannot be considered either a moral or immoral book.
This, however, is extremely unlikely, given Christianity’s extensive history, especially in the West.

However, if we find a society that was influenced by a Fundamentalist ideology, but the implementation of the principles led to unnecessary harm and suffering, deprivation of personal and economic freedoms, or drastically shortened lifespans, then I believe we have sufficient basis to consider the Bible to be an immoral book.

For clarification, because I want to consider the strongest possible case for CMI's argument that the Bible is not an immoral book, I want to consider only strict and serious Fundamentalist interpretations of the Bible as acceptable and pertinent to the argument. By this, I mean interpretations that are either to-the-letter (“The Bible says, I believe it, that settles it!”), or that give very little credence (if any) to mythosymbolic interpretation (such as believing the serpent in the Garden literally spoke using a vocal capacity to Eve) when read in any accepted English translation.

This means that for the purpose of this exercise, I am also going to discount any Christian denominations that rely on supplemental texts as a basis for doctrine. For example, because Catholicism has extra-Biblical texts such as the four extra books of the Catholic Bible as well as the various catechisms and papal bulls that inform Catholic doctrine, I will not be considering any societies that were under Catholic control. Likewise for Mormonism, which also uses extra-Biblical texts.

This is to both avoid a strawman fallacy, and to consider the strongest possible case to argue against. I also believe we should consider only the most strident and serious interpretations of the Bible (e.g. Fundamentalism, Puritanism, etc.), because if we consider societies that were vaguely Christian or were secular in practice, the argument then involves the question of how Christian they were alongside the question of what impact Christianity can be responsibility for. This dual question is not something I yet wish to consider.

In light of this, I wish to only consider the societies that implement the most serious and strict scriptural interpretation when it came to encoding principles as law, which leaves Protestant Fundamentalism, because they abide by a to-the-letter theology, as the best-placed version of Christianity to consider.

Before we go through the two sub-criteria at hand, I also posit the case that for the Bible to be considered a moral book, it has to have a perfect track record - every society that ever implemented principles from the Bible led to a net positive impact with regards to the health and well-being of all the people under jurisdiction of the principles, such that even one case of negative would render the Bible, when applied as strictly and literally as possible, to fail the second criteria, and thus give us sufficient cause to judge the Bible as an immoral book.

Think about it like this - could a morally perfect book, written by a perfectly moral God, whose principles are being perfectly implemented (or as close to perfect as possible) imperfectly affect morality and history?

Or, if your argument is that the Bible has never been perfectly implemented, then this creates the logical inconsistency of a perfect God who has created a perfect book that can never be perfectly implemented (despite almost 2000 years of history).

So on to the task at hand, in my estimation, there have indeed been a number of societies governed by people who believed in and implemented a to-the-letter interpretation of the Bible. To list, but a few:

The Confederate States of America (1860-1865).
Europe of the Middle Ages (circa 1250AD to 1500AD) and Early Modern Period (1500AD to 1700AD).
The Puritan colonies of New England in the late 1600s.

Among others, but these ones are the most familiar.

From the above list, I will pick one to consider the impact of the Bible by – the Confederate States of America. This is because much has been studied of this time period and its people, with the effects still being felt today.

The Confederate States of America, a grouping of mainly southern and south-eastern states, existed as a breakaway republic from the Union (the northern states) and was most famous for being states that not only practiced chattel slavery, not only resisted the Abolitionist movement, but were also willing to defend their right to self-determination militarily, as the Civil War (1861-1865) proved.
Protestant Christianity was ingrained in the cultural psyche of the Confederate States, such that their official motto was ‘Deo Vindice’ (God Vindicates), and their constitution makes explicit reference to ‘Almighty God’ – this was written in to the Confederate constitution as a rebuke to the Union, whose constitution was seen to be the result of ‘perilous atheism’ for not being explicitly Christian enough!

Furthermore, among the moral justifications made for the legalisation of chattel slavery was specifically because chattel slavery was in the Bible. Numerous clergy from numerous denominations wrote numerous books claiming divine support for their implementation and practice of chattel slavery, something that would not have gone unnoticed.

We can see that the culture of the Confederacy was soaked in an atmosphere of to-the-letter Protestant Christianity.

This means we have example of a society that was indeed influenced by an ideology of to-the-letter Protestant Christianity, which means we have a candidate society to help us evaluate the Bible against the second criteria.

Let’s now look at the question of: did to-the-letter Protestant Christianity have any measurable impact on the society in question?
If there is a measurable impact, we can then evaluate if that impact was positive or negative, helping us answer affirmative or negative to the second criteria.

Ignoring the obvious impact of social cohesion (a function that religion plays in everyday life as part of a society’s wider culture), what we are interested in was how it affected decision-making, particularly with regards to legislation and military decisions. And straight off the bat, we see that two of the decisive factors that theology played in governance was regarding slavery and military action.

The Confederate practice of chattel slavery without very little hope of manumission or emancipation was driven by economic expedience, excused by outright racism and with justification from scripture, which is what led to the Confederate secession in the first place.

Over time, arguments between the Union and the Confederacy ramped up as the Union did not recognise the legitimacy of the Confederate States. As the arguments ramped up, so too did the theological rhetoric.

Both sides believed they had God’s favour.
Both sides believed that they were doing the right thing theologically.
Both sides believed they were engaging in a divine struggle for a greater cause.
And no side, particularly the newly formed Confederacy whose raison d’etre was that the Union was not Christian enough for its liking (especially because they let their slaves go), was going to back down in a hurry.

The Confederacy reaped the benefits of chattel slavery.
The Confederacy split the country in two (and in some cases, denominations as well) to hold on to the practice of chattel slavery.
The split led to escalating tensions.
The escalating tensions led to military conflict.
The military conflict changed the cultural landscape of America for decades.
And all the while, scriptural justification and divine providence was claimed at every step.

Further evidence is the Confederacy having chaplains from almost every major denomination out in the military encampments, the Episcopal bishop of Virginia, Robert Meade, telling Robert E. Lee, “You are engaged in a holy cause” (and it’s not like Episcopalians are on the fringe of Christianity), and revivals broke out on both sides of the conflict.

So it is not a great leap to reach the conclusion that to-the-letter Protestant Christianity had a profound impact on the Confederate States, and thus an impact we can measure.

So now, on to the hardest part we really want to consider:
Was the impact of the implementation of to-the-letter Protestant Christianity, on the whole, positive, affirming the morality of the Bible, or negative, affirming the immorality of the Bible.

On the one hand, if you were white, you had the best chance of longevity. Agricultural fluctuations, primitive medical practices and a wide-scale military conflict aside, given the social and economic freedoms white Protestants enjoyed, they tended to live to approximately 40-45 years.

But on the other, if you were black, you had a very high chance of being subjected to chattel slavery (if not outright born in to it) which denied you both personal and economic freedoms. So even on this count, it is not reasonable to state that a person in chattel slavery was in a position to live a happier life, as personal and economic freedom are most conducive to personal happiness.
Furthermore, those bound in chattel slavery experienced a reduced life-expectancy compared to the non-slave population, with one study suggesting the average life expectancy for slaves was as low as 20 years.

So with this data at hand, we can see that a significant portion of the population of the Confederate States, estimated to be about 27%, lived in conditions that caused them harm socially and economically and that cut their life expectancy in half compared to other people.

Thus, we can count the impact as being negative.

So, here we have an example of a society that identified very strongly as Protestant Christian, believed in a to-the-letter Fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible, created and enacted legislation and made governmental decisions with moral support based on that Fundamentalist interpretation of scripture, and had legalised and enforced practices that ensured that a significant portion of their population died extremely early and in abject misery.

Thus, because we have an example of a Fundamentalist ideology in practice that negatively impacted its society, we can confirm and adjudge the Bible to not be a moral book, thus making it an immoral book.

So, to answer Creation Ministry International’s question “is the Bible an immoral book”, the answer is yes.

The Bible is an immoral book.

This is not to say there is no value in the book, or that there is nothing positive to gain from it, but when the most general definition of morality is applied, considering the strongest and most literal form of Biblical interpretation generally available, and weighing it against the most fair and nuanced criteria I can come up with, the Bible fails to meet a standard of perfection that we are told the Bible has, especially by those who believe in the strongest and most literal Biblical interpretation generally available - namely, Creationists.

And by failing to be perfect, the perfect, holy and inerrant Bible has failed.

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Is there a way back?

Yes there is, and it is called moderacy

By dialling down the seriousness, being willing to consider that not everything in the Bible is literallly true, and even being willing to consider that some things in the Bible are flat-out wrong, it is possible to step away from Fundamentalism and from a theology that doesn't subscribe to an us against the world mentality.

By stepping back from a to-the-letter theology that Fundamentalists and Creationists hold to, which also informs their scientific opinion and morality in a way that is not generally seen as being useful, let alone correct, dialogue can be positive and rewarding - and when that happens, everyone wins.

By being open to dialogue, by being willing to consider alternative opinions, by being willing to consider you may even be wrong and to finding a method that leads to the best interpretation of reality we have at hand, we can all make this world a better place.

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While it has been exhausting and time-consuming, I ultimately hope that not only this post, but this whole blog series expands and informs the realm of interfaith/non-faith dialogue, with an eye to honest and rational discussion.

To any Christian reading this - I am not your enemy. I come in peace. I do have a hard message, but who you are is more important than what you believe, and if we can make one better, we can make the other better.

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With many regards, and looking forward to keeping the engagement and ideas going...